I think, given a choice of any three dragons, that any pair of them can breed, BFS are quite comfortable with the whole variable gender scene.
Yes. This is what I was trying to get at with my "confused about gender" comment earlier. Though I should have said "sex" not gender as I was referring to breeding. And sexual breeding in animals (not just humans), like sex (M/F), is all about the presence or absence of the Y chromosome. And is anything but a human construct. Gender OTOH, I agree, is a human construct and if it has any basis in genetics it is a very complicated one. I was reminded of this quite forcefully some years ago when I was involved in writing a software suite for an insurance company and absentmindedly wrote "Gender" as a label where the specification stated "Sex".
Main GCID: GregDarcy Secondary: GregDarcyToo All gems friends spoken for. Happy to accept friends for party hats. I blame Apple's auto incorrect for all my typos. I actively discourage challenges. All challengers are unfriended.
I think, given a choice of any three dragons, that any pair of them can breed, BFS are quite comfortable with the whole variable gender scene.
Yes. This is what I was trying to get at with my "confused about gender" comment earlier. Though I should have said "sex" not gender as I was referring to breeding. And sexual breeding in animals (not just humans), like sex (M/F), is all about the presence or absence of the Y chromosome. And is anything but a human construct. Gender OTOH, I agree, is a human construct and if it has any basis in genetics it is a very complicated one. I was reminded of this quite forcefully some years ago when I was involved in writing a software suite for an insurance company and absentmindedly wrote "Gender" as a label where the specification stated "Sex".
That's interesting … I always refer to M/F (meaning XX or XY chromosomes) as gender, because I think of the word sex as a verb. I always thought "same sex" was used because of the alliteration and it saved a syllable. Are you sex can be a noun and gender is something else again?
"Sex" can be a noun or verb. It can also be used as an adjective though more often sexual or sexy is used instead. If you sex (v) a chicken, you determine its sex (n). If you video yourself doing so you make a sex (a) tape. (Lame example I know!)
Sex refers specifically to the presence of the Y Chromosome. XX Is female. XY is male. The extremely rare XXY is also male, though if my memory serves me correctly, sterile. I am unaware of other viable combinations. Though it has been a LONG time since I looked at any of this.
Gender is a socially defined matrix and refers to how a person defines themselves. There are a number of axes of polarity here. One of which is sex. Usually, but by no means always, the other axes align with sex. The other axes include behavior (camp/butch), dressing, self image, sexual preference and probably others I can't think of right now. Each of these axes denote a spectrum of concepts. It gets very complicated very quickly. It is best just to accept people as they present themselves. Social conventions also get in the way. A man wearing a dress is called a transvestite and often reviled, but a woman wearing a trouser suit is called a business woman and often admired. Sigh.
Main GCID: GregDarcy Secondary: GregDarcyToo All gems friends spoken for. Happy to accept friends for party hats. I blame Apple's auto incorrect for all my typos. I actively discourage challenges. All challengers are unfriended.
If anyone wants to learn more about gender, there's an infographic called a genderbread person that's online.
As for the diversity issue (which it is):
Think of it this way: if BFS was inclusive of POC from the very beginning, there would not be a conversation about why there are POC and that they shouldn't do that, because that would be a wrong conversation to have.
To not have this important conversation is just as wrong.
Lemmy talked about it really well. It's a social problem that people need to unlearn. There's no "default" person in life. This game is global. Financial repercussions (if there are any) are not important as social repercussions.
Why is it wrong for people to want to be represented in a game they play? It's not about being politically correct, it's just about human decency. If someone feels excluded and there are ways to include them--just do it. To justify why they should continue to be excluded is just mean.
People may not be aware they're actively being exclusive and that's an issue. What's a bigger issue is when this fact is pointed out to them and they continue to exclude others.
Patrick Rothfuss, a fantasy author, said this (and while yes the point is about women in particular, the message also applies to how people in power subconsciously affect future generations' perception and their future attitudes and actions):
"We have a huge problem with how we portray women. And it is not just the fantasy [genre]. It is like our entire culture is steeped in this. I think of it as cultural poison. Very few people willfully propagate it. But what happens is that you soak it up - gently, from when you are a little kid and you watch [for example] these Disney princess flicks. And you go: 'Oh, that is what a woman wants, that is what a woman is. She's kind of vapid and then some guy saves her, right?' You absorb these things before you are capable of rational thought. In the same way that if someone puts bad food in front of you as a child, you will eat it, even though it's poisoned. And then you get that inside of you, and when it comes time to write, it naturally kind of comes out of you, and the whole thing perpetuates itself. You don't have to look any further than Tolkien. I love Tolkien. [But] who has read The Hobbit? How many women are there in The Hobbit? Who has not realized until this moment that there are no women in The Hobbit? Isn't that Flicking creepy? [Tolkien] was one of the founders, and people followed in his footsteps (...) And he did not do it out of malice, he was also following the tradition. But the fact remains: it's here. This doesn't make us bad people, as long as we acknowledge that we have soaked something up (...) and do our best not to vomit it back onto other people."
I find it "creepy" that there are only white characters.
Another thing I find creepy? This game has an ageism problem. All the men are old. The women are either extremely young or old (the grandma from the iceberry event).
Before the witch appeared in the dragontrack, I also found it creepy every girl in the game was a princess.
So Gardenia was a pleasant development.
Last Edit: Feb 8, 2015 6:35:48 GMT -6 by homais: Typos
^ Very good points. While I agree with all that, in this case we are talking about background elements in a game that most of the players don't even look at when they are playing. Heck, they disappear all together if you are zoomed out all the way. It's not that the same as there being no female characters in The Hobbit. It's watching a restaurant scene between two characters in a movie and being upset about the cultural representation of the extras in the background.
^ Very good points. While I agree with all that, in this case we are talking about background elements in a game that most of the players don't even look at when they are playing. Heck, they disappear all together if you are zoomed out all the way. It's not that the same as there being no female characters in The Hobbit. It's watching a restaurant scene between two characters in a movie and being upset about the cultural representation of the extras in the background.
There's a reason this particular discussion came up when this event started--visitors are no longer background elements when they've been made a part of events (finding Gardenia/Santa).
During the Christmas event, people were starring at the screens looking closely at the visitors till their eyes bled since Santa came around four times a day.
I definitely noticed how there were no female characters during the Christmas event. While yes it could be said the penguin was a female, they couldn't replace another one of their many human male visitors with a human female?
They've made so many new characters for the Halloween and winter event so we know BFS can do it.
And there are so many cultural representation issues in movies that'd you be surprised how often background extras are looked at a last resort to see if the film creators even considered diverse representation.
It's not something that crosses your mind, something you even think about, if you always see yourself reflected in a multitude of ways in the world around you.
It's like a walking through a hall of mirrors and only seeing this one other race appear on the mirror for whatever reason and it's frustrating because you know you're there, you exist, why aren't you being something as so simple as being reflected?
That all said: I know this is just a game, this particular element (the visitors) on a normal basis is mostly ingored. But I'm really glad it wasn't ingored and that this discussion took place.
The small things add up.
And change is possible, it's happening--but people have had to fight tooth and nail for it.
The overall problem (beyond BFS) will not just passively disappear. Speaking up, being active, teaching, learning etc. are all steps that have to be taken to rectify it.
Basically, I understand people's reservations. I am an realistic person (my friends would not call me an optimist at all either lol). But I don't want ever want to discourage others from possibly doing something or take away someone's hope based on a few assumptions.
What really bothered me about the Christmas event was the penguins. And not because they were female. Dear BFS Sandaklos is reputed to live near the NORTH Pole. Penguins only live around the SOUTH Pole. There's a lot of real estate (mostly with absolute water frontage - straight up) between the two. Next time lets have Polar Bears please.
As for Tolkien, you need to remember he grew up in a very different era. A time when "Boys Own Adventure" stories were king. Kipling, Crusoe, Gulliver, Wells, Biggles, Verne all had or were MALE protagonists Females were largely missing. A time when a woman's place was firmly in the home making babies and looking after the "bread winner". He also worked in the very male (at that time) world of Oxford University. The fact that he managed to include several very strong female characters in the sequel is a testament both to his growth and the change in society. At a time when Bond girls were at best femme fatales, and most often there simply for his conquest and/or rescue.
And remember, Tolkien always was very strong on race relations and saw racial stereotypes as just that. Even Elves and Dwarves were able to be friends despite historic and traditional animosity. Though I admit the only good Orc remained a dead Orc to the end. But then they were twisted and debased elves anyway.
Also consider the differences in Agatha Christie's two main sleuths. Miss Marple: an old maid (spinster) who learned her hobby by peering out the curtains of her home and gossiping. Hercule Poirot: A professional private detective running a very successful international practice. And that was a woman writer!
Main GCID: GregDarcy Secondary: GregDarcyToo All gems friends spoken for. Happy to accept friends for party hats. I blame Apple's auto incorrect for all my typos. I actively discourage challenges. All challengers are unfriended.
Also consider the differences in Agatha Christie's two main sleuths. Miss Marple: an old maid (spinster) who learned her hobby by peering out the curtains of her home and gossiping. Hercule Poirot: A professional private detective running a very successful international practice. And that was a woman writer!
It might have been even harder for a woman writer to write strong female characters. Recently I read an article that spoke about a very successful female director who will not help other women directors because she doesn't want to anger her predominately male peers. And this is 2015. So kudos to Christie for just having a female character who solves crimes. I would imagine that Agatha Christie would have been well aware of the limitations placed on woman at the time that she wrote the Miss Marple mysteries. I doubt there would be many women in the '50s running detective agencies. She would have needed another angle for a woman to solve crimes. It would have been amazing if she had developed a strong female character that broke through the barriers preventing women from participating in police and detective work at the time. But she didn't and instead found a plausible inoffensive way around the unlikely woman detective thing. Many oppressed people participate one way or another in their own oppression. It's a survival tactic. Not to mention it is impossible not to be shaped by the sexist beliefs ingrained in the fabric of the society we live in. Women can be crippled by internalized misogyny. At least nowadays most women are aware that they can be who they wish to be. They might not get paid quite as well and to get any recognition in their field they will have to be twice as good as the men but hey at least they can play with the boys. Which is a vast improvement over the time when female scientists and researchers had to work as volunteer faculty members and had the credit for their discoveries given to husbands and male colleagues. Many of these women still have not been given the credit for their work.
Don't forget Tommy and Tuppence. Though most of their stories have been subsumed In the telemovie world by one of the others. Usually Marple.
Main GCID: GregDarcy Secondary: GregDarcyToo All gems friends spoken for. Happy to accept friends for party hats. I blame Apple's auto incorrect for all my typos. I actively discourage challenges. All challengers are unfriended.
I'm not sure if you'll read this, TommyB, but it's sure nice to "see" you here at the forum again. I hope you'll let us know how you are, what you've been doing, and maybe even give us an update on your little one, who is not so little now, I'm sure! We've missed you!
I'm not sure if you'll read this, TommyB, but it's sure nice to "see" you here at the forum again. I hope you'll let us know how you are, what you've been doing, and maybe even give us an update on your little one, who is not so little now, I'm sure! We've missed you!
+1
dragon list (last dragon : Gatren) DV friend id: Crumble#7733 friend link coop friends always welcome, but all my gems are spoken for
Fletch_smf asked about the solar eclipse I saw in a post on the Sun favorite thread, but that thread isn't letting me post in it to quote so I'm trying a link here: dragonvale-tips.proboards.com/post/123988
Anyway, we lived in Illinois at the time and friends invited us to split a small condo with them for a week on Curacao. We found a quiet spot on the north coast, where you had to walk a ways from the nearest parking, so not many people were there other than some scientists and eclipse chasers. It was an absolutely awesome experience. I just found a video of the eclipse from a nearby island that gives you an idea of the reaction people had. www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt1P3A9BdoA
Unfortunately the timing of solar eclipses since then hasn't allowed us to travel to another, but you've reminded me that there are several coming up this decade. Here's a useful site: eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html
Last Edit: Feb 21, 2015 11:44:51 GMT -6 by elehcim
Thanks for pointing out the problem with the board. That has been rectified.
And great story. Thanks for sharing. Will check out that link.
Hi Fletch, What do you mean with rectified ? I'm not quite sure if Michele is talking about the same problem that I have, but since round about 10 days I have difficulties with posting in this forum. I always get a message that there was a problem with the web site and it was loaded again. Especially quoting seems to provoke the problem. It then takes several tries and a lot of patience to post/quote. If this is the same problem as Michele mentionned it is NOT rectified because I got that same message right now while trying to do this quoting. I also posted this in the house keeping thread, and other members confirmed the same problem. This is severe because I don't have the patience to try every single post several times. ( and I don't think that other members are different) The result is that I refrain from posting. So if you have any idea what's going on : please help solving the problem.
dragon list (last dragon : Gatren) DV friend id: Crumble#7733 friend link coop friends always welcome, but all my gems are spoken for
Post by Fletch_smf on Feb 21, 2015 20:54:30 GMT -6
Hi Crumble,
No, it's a different problem. No-one could post in the new board because of an admin setting. So that's been fixed.
Regarding your posting, are you talking about using it on a tablet rather than a computer? Because I have the same problem on my iPad. But no dramas posting from my computer.
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