I got my second Emerald. I know that Fletch believes that the order doesn't matter, but I read here that others were having success with Lichen+Crystal so I decided to try it. I had tried Crystal+Lichen perhaps 40 times with no success and *a lot* of Crystal and 48 hours fails. With Lichen+Crystal I got two fails, but both were 6 hours so I was encouraged. On the third try - Bingo!
Whew, that was the hardest one ever. Looking forward to Pearl with mixed feelings as I'm really compelled to keep my egg collection complete (except for the Bone I'm missing) so I'll need two of them.
Poppy
P.S. Fletch: Are you *certain* that order doesn't matter? I realize that maybe I finally caught up with the odds, but the results were very different with the reverse order - albeit the sample for the Lichen+Crystal order was small.
That's the crux of it there. It's classic "After it, therefore because of it." thinking. I did extensive testing getting Sandstorm from Air + Mud, changing levels of both AND the order they were put in the caves, and it made no difference. It's possible that other dragons have their own separate rules, but it's not likely. Why would they?
This has gone a long way to ruining DV for a lot of people, I think. If you're spending 2 weeks doing nothing but trying to get 1 dragon, then it becomes as much of a grind as the Gold Shrines are. If it's going to be like this for a whole year, then people are going to be giving up the game in droves.
I know, I know. I've learned a lot about cause and effect in my many years of trading the stock market. The talking heads do it every day - come up with an appropriate headline to explain the markets move that day. After the fact of course. So your empirically based answer makes perfect sense. I think I was just hoping and willing to suspend disbelief in order to re-introduce a little mystery into the game which is becoming a bit of a grind (as you point out).
Freemium games have what I call a "money gauge" which sets times and therefore incentives to accelerate the game pace by purchasing things. The one criticism I have had with BFS is that they set the needle on the money gauge a little high in my opinion. Oregon Trail, for example, has the needle set much lower and you can keep the game going at a nice pace on a continuing basis without having to spend money to accelerate the pace.
To only have one breeding pair for the gem dragon and to have huge fail times is getting pretty aggressive and I think it might backfire on BFS as it slows things to a crawl unless you're willing to spend money. But they're so smart that they will probably turn the dial when they sense that folks are getting bored.
Poppy
Last Edit: May 27, 2012 22:41:01 GMT -6 by Administrator
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Trading Dragons, money for gem exchange, chat/message feature, rotate decorations/buildings/habitats/etc., and a more interactive colosseum would be amazing.
Why would a rare dragon ruin the game for people? Sure it's hard to get but surely you can breed one in a month? The clover dragon was far FAR worse imho.
You might call it a grind, but for most DV players its the onlynew thing to do.
That's the crux of it there. It's classic "After it, therefore because of it." thinking. I did extensive testing getting Sandstorm from Air + Mud, changing levels of both AND the order they were put in the caves, and it made no difference. It's possible that other dragons have their own separate rules, but it's not likely. Why would they?
This has gone a long way to ruining DV for a lot of people, I think. If you're spending 2 weeks doing nothing but trying to get 1 dragon, then it becomes as much of a grind as the Gold Shrines are. If it's going to be like this for a whole year, then people are going to be giving up the game in droves.
I disagree Fletch, only those who are not truly committed to their dragons and the opportunity each new egg brings ...will leave the game. their loss....
Why would a rare dragon ruin the game for people? Sure it's hard to get but surely you can breed one in a month? The clover dragon was far FAR worse imho.
You might call it a grind, but for most DV players its the onlynew thing to do.
I agree. Now that I have a pair of everything I'm eagerly awaiting the first of June for the next installment of panic and frustration - it's what's making the game exciting! Getting things easy is boring - theres no sense of achievement!
Glenys
I'll repeat what I said earlier in another thread. When I first played this game it was just at home with my wife and daughters. The excitement we shared about the new dragon releases was just between us, and it was amongst people who's faces I could see. When my daughter told me she had bred a Sun, we all wanted to know what combo worked and went nuts trying to repeat it. We did not play this game online at all.
How in the world, could someone playing that way, get an Emerald Dragon? Without knowing that Crystal + Lichen was the only combo that worked, how many things would they try in the two weeks they had? There is no way they would stumble upon it by accident. Sun, Moon and Rainbow are ridiculous to get, but there is no time limit on them. All the other limited have a list of elements you need to get them, and even the ones with specific parentage you could get by accident. With Sakura, which had two specific parents, they threw open the gates for the last week so any combination of those elements could get you a Sakura. The Emerald Dragon is an entirely different kettle of fish. Dunk at the Wiki forum shares these figures:
7% chance of getting it in the EBI. 32 attempts at breeding it to have a 90% chance of breeding one. 14.29 hour average fail. 457 hours of breeding required to have 90% chance of getting Emerald or 19 days non stop. This is longer than the Emerald will be available.
By comparison, Sun 6% chance of getting it in the EBI 38 attempts at breeding to have a 90% chance of breeding one. 5.88 hour average fail (Firefly + Lichen) 224 hours of breeding required or 9.3 days. And this is a dragon that is always available.
Clover 15 attempts required at breeding to have a 90% chance of breeding one. 7.4 hour average fail (Flower + Moss) 111 hours required or 4.6 days
Should a dragon that's only available for 2 weeks, or even a month, be twice as hard to get as a Rare that is always available? Or the Panlong which you have all year to get?
I love challenges and dragons that are hard to get, but when you have a 30 day time limit it's not the same as, "I'll try for Rainbow again later, after I've got this new dragon that's just come out, or after I've turned one of shrines Gold." The point is, there has been a great correlation between how long a dragon is available and how hard it is to get ... until this one. Heck, I wasn't testing % back then, but I got a Leap Year Dragon in the few days it was available without speeding up my fails with gems. If all the birthstones are going to be this hard to get, players will be spending a great deal of every month breeding it, let alone the other new dragons that are released (still haven't been able to try for Plasma, Current or Copper) and let alone trying to breed for shrines. So they'll either forget trying to get the birthstone dragon, or forget the game entirely.
Last Edit: May 28, 2012 3:08:57 GMT -6 by Fletch_smf
Fletch, youre right, it may put some people off but that won't be any of us! I've played lots of games before that were fascinating for a while and then totally switched off (temple run, plants vs zombies etc) Its all part of a natural attrition process - not all aspects of a game or anything that was entertaining for a while is going to keep you absorbed forever. Also, you, like us, turned to the Internet looking for clues and what you and I and us found is a community of people who were also looking for answers. This, to me, has become a much more important part of this game. People will drop away with or without what seem insurmountable challenges but a community like this has been an unexpected 'gem' and an extremely enriching aspect of my game play. I've never been part of an online community before, and, as a relatively private person, have never been comfortable with putting myself out there but obviously this community has filled a need I didn't know I had. I understand what you're saying about your family because you obviously miss your little internal DV community that you had but you're obviously a close and loving family anyway and I don't think that you're going to lose that in a hurry! So don't worry about the fact that we find out from each other the best combos early because that's what we depend on each other for, just regard it as if your family has just grown proportionally and spread its tentacles around the world! I love you Uncle Fletch! x
As I am working on breeding my limite dragons for the egg collection I got to thinking: once October rolls around everybody who missed out on the limited Bone dragons will be hoping for them to become available again. As much as I would like everybody to have every limited dragon, I hope the eggs will look different every year...otherwise what's new for the other players?
Post by Administrator on May 28, 2012 8:48:16 GMT -6
Re Fletch's comments....
Oddly, we are hoisting ourselves on our own petards. The valuable information that we receive here and from other sources gives us proven recipes. Which means we don't go through the experimentation process ourselves. Which removes thinking and mystery from the game. The only thing left is rote processing. Bottom line? We have this game too figured out.
The solution?
The many of us stuck at level 30 desperately need more challenges. For exampe, higher levels to strive for would be fantastic. We need more layers of complexity that we are unable to figure out for a while. And I think Fletch is right. If we don't get them there will be a lot of attrition.
But I do love this community. It's become more important to me than the game.
Poppy
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I'd love an inventory screen of sorts so I can see and interact with all of the dragons in my park without going to each individual habitat and clicking on it. Sort of a list like you get with the hibernation cave, but only listing dragons currently on display. A sort by type of dragon filter would be handy in this, too, rather than a just sort by element.
I very much agree with the comments regarding a lack of mystery to the game. However, the thing that bothers me the most and has been putting me off a bit is the repetition and the phrenetic grind for these limited dragons. Breeding the exact same pair day in and day out for weeks in the hopes of getting the limited dragon in time is a bit much. The Bloom dragon was the start of this cycle that led me to dislike the game in that respect. I dread the new limited dragons each time they come out because I know it will be another mind-numbing grind for it. "Rote processing" is exactly right, Poppy.
I haven't played other games, so I have no comparison, but I think the comments you made on the emphasis on money are spot on, Poppy. It is a for profit game, clearly, but even in the short time I've been plying, I've gotten the feeling they've ramped it up a little with an emphasis on trying to get people to purchase more gems. I wonder what their bottom line looks like and if this is an attempt to keep the game going to keep a certain minimum profit level or if it is just greed.
In summation, I feel a little put off lately and echo the feelings others have shared. Though, I have no intention of quitting it just yet.
This has gone a long way to ruining DV for a lot of people, I think. If you're spending 2 weeks doing nothing but trying to get 1 dragon, then it becomes as much of a grind as the Gold Shrines are. If it's going to be like this for a whole year, then people are going to be giving up the game in droves.
Agree, I was just going to post an "open letter to BFS" here on this thread since I would assume someone of them should keep an eye here on us :-)
I'm new to this game, and trying to get 2 Butterfly and 2 Emeralds and looks like I'm running out of time. Combo of limited time and hard to get dragons with loooooooooong fail time are taking fun out of this game for me. I breed forest of trees and handful of Crystals and I just about have it. I finally got one Emerald yesterday but I will probably run out of time for second one. Have 48hr in the cave right now.
If this same breading combo stays for the rest of the gem dragons, I already know about myself, I will be history :-)
Bottom line, if this game gets too frustrating to me I will find me a new one that is less frustrating. It is that simple.
BFS, if you read this, I bought gems at start, you got my money. And that's it. You got enough. If you are changing the game to try to force me into more spending, it will not work with me.
And people that spent 50+ dollars on speeding up just to be disappointed may also start thinking/questioning if this is what they want to do in the future.
Post by demonioazul on May 28, 2012 10:27:56 GMT -6
Well, a lot of good points are being established here. I also think BFS needs to do an upgrade so that all level 30 players have new challenges once again. More difficult dragons is just a quick way out, but it doesn't really solve the problem. We vets (lol) may have the patience to breed and breed and breed the same combo over and over, basically because we have not much to do beside getting the new dragons or shrine grinding, butfor newbies it can be really frustrating to spend so much time trying t get an emerald. Not a lot of fun breeding one single combo all the time.
On the other hand, I have to say that compared to some other games I play, DV is not too harsh on spending real money. I have only bought gems once, in order to get my EBI, but that's it. You can get gems from the colosseum, from friends, and now from the gemstone dragons, so with patience you can get enough gems to buy almost anything that the game offers (except for the ridiculous cave upgrades). In Smurf Village, for example, you can randomly get ONE smurfberry from time to time, like once a month or so. And you get some more when you level up. That's it. And a lot of stuff is only purchasable with smurfberries, so either you spend some real money or you don't get all the content. I have seen many games like this. Actually, that was one of the things that drew me to DV, that it doesn't push you into buying gems! Lol. Guess it depends on each point of view.
Last Edit: May 28, 2012 10:28:27 GMT -6 by demonioazul
New goal: Crown 5 more dragons. Treats needed: 26,214,400. Current treats: 14,000,000
It's a process. It has been interesting watching Zynga evolve on Facebook, from just fun little games to a vast uncaring, greed empire. Have no idea of the background of the devs of BFS, whether there is business degrees/experience under their belts, or strictly gaming. Zynga had no interest in finding the balance point between gaming for a good profit vs a good product. It was just how many items can we put into the game that will put a ridiculous amount of money in our pockets. Then make another game, different skin on it, repeat...over and over again. They made tons of money, but didn't have a plan for the long haul. Those of us playing really felt like it was being run by a bunch of kids with no business sense what-so-ever. There are still millions of people worldwide who have the game loaded on their computers, but the numbers of people actually playing is nothing compared to what it used to be. Have blocked more of them than I play anymore.
Think a lot of the discontentment about the Emerald is the short initial May time frame. Knowing that we have a month to get the pearl may take a lot of the frantic out of the mix. I used gems to get the first Emerald, but haven't used many since and can't see myself going nuts with them in June.
Let's hope BFS has some good business people on their staff, and if not, gee...maybe they want to hire John!
I disagree Fletch, only those who are not truly committed to their dragons and the opportunity each new egg brings ...will leave the game. their loss....
I agree. Now that I have a pair of everything I'm eagerly awaiting the first of June for the next installment of panic and frustration - it's what's making the game exciting! Getting things easy is boring - theres no sense of achievement!
Glenys
I'll repeat what I said earlier in another thread. When I first played this game it was just at home with my wife and daughters. The excitement we shared about the new dragon releases was just between us, and it was amongst people who's faces I could see. When my daughter told me she had bred a Sun, we all wanted to know what combo worked and went nuts trying to repeat it. We did not play this game online at all.
How in the world, could someone playing that way, get an Emerald Dragon? Without knowing that Crystal + Lichen was the only combo that worked, how many things would they try in the two weeks they had? There is no way they would stumble upon it by accident. Sun, Moon and Rainbow are ridiculous to get, but there is no time limit on them. All the other limited have a list of elements you need to get them, and even the ones with specific parentage you could get by accident. With Sakura, which had two specific parents, they threw open the gates for the last week so any combination of those elements could get you a Sakura. The Emerald Dragon is an entirely different kettle of fish. Dunk at the Wiki forum shares these figures:
7% chance of getting it in the EBI. 32 attempts at breeding it to have a 90% chance of breeding one. 14.29 hour average fail. 457 hours of breeding required to have 90% chance of getting Emerald or 19 days non stop. This is longer than the Emerald will be available.
By comparison, Sun 6% chance of getting it in the EBI 38 attempts at breeding to have a 90% chance of breeding one. 5.88 hour average fail (Firefly + Lichen) 224 hours of breeding required or 9.3 days. And this is a dragon that is always available.
Clover 15 attempts required at breeding to have a 90% chance of breeding one. 7.4 hour average fail (Flower + Moss) 111 hours required or 4.6 days
Should a dragon that's only available for 2 weeks, or even a month, be twice as hard to get as a Rare that is always available? Or the Panlong which you have all year to get?
I love challenges and dragons that are hard to get, but when you have a 30 day time limit it's not the same as, "I'll try for Rainbow again later, after I've got this new dragon that's just come out, or after I've turned one of shrines Gold." The point is, there has been a great correlation between how long a dragon is available and how hard it is to get ... until this one. Heck, I wasn't testing % back then, but I got a Leap Year Dragon in the few days it was available without speeding up my fails with gems. If all the birthstones are going to be this hard to get, players will be spending a great deal of every month breeding it, let alone the other new dragons that are released (still haven't been able to try for Plasma, Current or Copper) and let alone trying to breed for shrines. So they'll either forget trying to get the birthstone dragon, or forget the game entirely.
Fletch you raise interesting points with which I agree. It is interesting though as I was just saying a similar thing to mjtyler2. When the copper came out I knew because I recieved an email from you guys here, I said to James that if I hadn't have received the email, it would have been some time before I knew it was out, simply because I don't check the market all the time as my islands are fairly well established, so for those people not lucky enough to get notification, they would lose some precious time in trying to breed some of the limited dragons. I can see how they would "give up" entirely. The would miss the timing, therefore miss the dragons and figure the game wasn't worth it. On the other hand as Glenys says and I ink this is applicable to us addict moreso, we all wait wo anticipation for the next dragon to come out and dutifully keep breeding for those we don't have, it's what keeps us here.
Wow! Impresive text! I agree, that the Emerald is out of proportion. Just trying to get two, I have had 3 Moon, 2 Sun and one Rainbow. That kind of takes the fun away, because I kept thinking this one is only available for so long and I can always get the Copper later. I simply want every dragon and I got a little stressed, when I didn't get any Emerald until my 50th try. I'm perfectly ok with hard to get dragons, but with this short a window, I just got frustrated. Now I'm ok, I mean I was lucky enough to get a second, but this dragon was just a lot of pain and not so much fun. I'm rally looking forward to breeding the copper now. Ok somehow the citing didnt work, but I'm sure you all get my point
Last Edit: May 28, 2012 12:36:28 GMT -6 by riogray
It's a process. It has been interesting watching Zynga evolve on Facebook, from just fun little games to a vast uncaring, greed empire. Have no idea of the background of the devs of BFS, whether there is business degrees/experience under their belts, or strictly gaming. Zynga had no interest in finding the balance point between gaming for a good profit vs a good product. It was just how many items can we put into the game that will put a ridiculous amount of money in our pockets. Then make another game, different skin on it, repeat...over and over again. They made tons of money, but didn't have a plan for the long haul. Those of us playing really felt like it was being run by a bunch of kids with no business sense what-so-ever. There are still millions of people worldwide who have the game loaded on their computers, but the numbers of people actually playing is nothing compared to what it used to be. Have blocked more of them than I play anymore.
Think a lot of the discontentment about the Emerald is the short initial May time frame. Knowing that we have a month to get the pearl may take a lot of the frantic out of the mix. I used gems to get the first Emerald, but haven't used many since and can't see myself going nuts with them in June.
Let's hope BFS has some good business people on their staff, and if not, gee...maybe they want to hire John!
Thanks for the props Shirley. I think there are some savvy folks there who will take seriously what is discussed here. They do have a constant balancing act between making $$$ and delivering fun and they have done a pretty good job so far.
I think their challenge right now is to accommodate a wider range of players, from beginner to advanced. The advanced crowd stuck at level 30 forever who have just about everything figured out are starting to get restless. But who knows? Maybe that group, while vocal, is a very minor part of their revenues. Like any company they will allocate their resources to whatever maximizes their profits. Although I do think it makes good business sense to keep your leaders and influencers happy.
Poppy
Last Edit: May 28, 2012 16:41:44 GMT -6 by Administrator
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It's a process. It has been interesting watching Zynga evolve on Facebook, from just fun little games to a vast uncaring, greed empire. Have no idea of the background of the devs of BFS, whether there is business degrees/experience under their belts, or strictly gaming. Zynga had no interest in finding the balance point between gaming for a good profit vs a good product. It was just how many items can we put into the game that will put a ridiculous amount of money in our pockets. Then make another game, different skin on it, repeat...over and over again. They made tons of money, but didn't have a plan for the long haul. Those of us playing really felt like it was being run by a bunch of kids with no business sense what-so-ever. There are still millions of people worldwide who have the game loaded on their computers, but the numbers of people actually playing is nothing compared to what it used to be. Have blocked more of them than I play anymore.
Think a lot of the discontentment about the Emerald is the short initial May time frame. Knowing that we have a month to get the pearl may take a lot of the frantic out of the mix. I used gems to get the first Emerald, but haven't used many since and can't see myself going nuts with them in June.
Let's hope BFS has some good business people on their staff, and if not, gee...maybe they want to hire John!
Thanks for the props Shirley. I think there are some savvy folks there who will take seriously what is discussed here. They do have a constant balancing act between making $$$ and delivering fun and they have done a pretty good job so far.
I think their challenge right now is to accommodate a wider range of players, from beginner to advanced. The advanced crowd stuck at level 30 forever who have just about everything figured out are starting to get restless. But who knows? Maybe that group, while vocal, is a very minor part of their revenues. Like any company they will allocate their resources to whatever maximizes their profits. Although I do think it makes good business sense to keep your leaders and influencers happy.
Poppy
Poppy
I think they have a great game here and am very impressed so far with their plan. They seem to listen to their players and adjust when necessary. A notion that was lost on Zynga.
Getting above level 30 is going to be a challenge, I would think, for the devs. Will they rise to the challenge, or will they create another game where we all start over with the same concept, with another creature? Time will tell. I wish them much luck. Can't wait to see the next chapter.
Post by tristan97tfj on May 28, 2012 16:27:41 GMT -6
A way to move your islands around a certain area, I am getting bored of seeing the EBI and the Gemstone island always in the same place, it could also be useful if you just want to move them around.
Post by tristan97tfj on May 28, 2012 17:17:35 GMT -6
I found this idea on the wiki and I really like it: Dragon super types, so fire bred with fire could have a chance of making an inferno dragon, these events are very rare:) Lightning +lightning =volt Plant+plant=forest Earth+earth=ore Cold+cold=glacial Water+water=whirlpool Air+air=tornado Metal+metal=platinum
I found this idea on the wiki and I really like it: Dragon super types, so fire bred with fire could have a chance of making an inferno dragon, these events are very rare:) Lightning +lightning =volt Plant+plant=forest Earth+earth=ore Cold+cold=glacial Water+water=whirlpool Air+air=tornado Metal+metal=platinum
I found this idea on the wiki and I really like it: Dragon super types, so fire bred with fire could have a chance of making an inferno dragon, these events are very rare:) Lightning +lightning =volt Plant+plant=forest Earth+earth=ore Cold+cold=glacial Water+water=whirlpool Air+air=tornado Metal+metal=platinum
That would be awesome if we also had super habitats to put them in!
I found this idea on the wiki and I really like it: Dragon super types, so fire bred with fire could have a chance of making an inferno dragon, these events are very rare:) Lightning +lightning =volt Plant+plant=forest Earth+earth=ore Cold+cold=glacial Water+water=whirlpool Air+air=tornado Metal+metal=platinum
This is a very cool idea! Oh and I agree with the above comments, emerald is too hard with such long fails and only 2 weeks to get... It does seem greedy!
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