I see a lot of players worried about missing the purchase of Mesmerus when they're missing the Mesmer dragon. If you own a Mesmer dragon, it's just 10k for the decorations and 1k for the evolve, which isn't much more than the cost briefly was for buying Mesmerus directly. Purchasing a Mesmer is an additional 10k, which may not have been in your budget if you're trying to buy all the new dragons.
Every recent event has given us a reward on the final reward day from the event island that allows us to pick almost any of the previous released dragons from the event. It's very likely that the same will occur here, and you can pick up a Mesmer for free at the end. Then there is some free time before the event closes, use that time to clone Mesmer in your social cave with another Mesmer and have extra copies for the Mesmerus evolution.
And if you don't want to spend the final 1k event currency to evolve, there is always the option to wait until the event ends and spend 100 gems to evolve instead. I personally value the gems more, but everyone has their own thing.
I think I will do that and just pocket the twin Mesmerus. Rift cloning my future possible Mesmer again is a bad decision when it can be done after the event
I see a lot of players worried about missing the purchase of Mesmerus when they're missing the Mesmer dragon. If you own a Mesmer dragon, it's just 10k for the decorations and 1k for the evolve, which isn't much more than the cost briefly was for buying Mesmerus directly. Purchasing a Mesmer is an additional 10k, which may not have been in your budget if you're trying to buy all the new dragons.
Every recent event has given us a reward on the final reward day from the event island that allows us to pick almost any of the previous released dragons from the event. It's very likely that the same will occur here, and you can pick up a Mesmer for free at the end. Then there is some free time before the event closes, use that time to clone Mesmer in your social cave with another Mesmer and have extra copies for the Mesmerus evolution.
And if you don't want to spend the final 1k event currency to evolve, there is always the option to wait until the event ends and spend 100 gems to evolve instead. I personally value the gems more, but everyone has their own thing.
I am calling BS. The point, here, is that Deca is intentionally creating too many things to chase for this event, so there’s a very good chance that most people won’t be able to complete, without spending hoards of cash. FOUR event dragons, FIVE limited (so far, including Mesmerus), TWELVE decos (including the annoying new Mesmerus decos), plus and extra 1k of event currency to evolve Mesmerus. Unless Deca is planning for a TON of triple days, it’s not viable. THIS is the crux of players’ complaints. It’s obvious that Deca is greedy and wants to FORCE players to spend, on top of the ad revenue that they are already getting, in addition to players’ cash.
I see a lot of players worried about missing the purchase of Mesmerus when they're missing the Mesmer dragon. If you own a Mesmer dragon, it's just 10k for the decorations and 1k for the evolve, which isn't much more than the cost briefly was for buying Mesmerus directly. Purchasing a Mesmer is an additional 10k, which may not have been in your budget if you're trying to buy all the new dragons.
Every recent event has given us a reward on the final reward day from the event island that allows us to pick almost any of the previous released dragons from the event. It's very likely that the same will occur here, and you can pick up a Mesmer for free at the end. Then there is some free time before the event closes, use that time to clone Mesmer in your social cave with another Mesmer and have extra copies for the Mesmerus evolution.
And if you don't want to spend the final 1k event currency to evolve, there is always the option to wait until the event ends and spend 100 gems to evolve instead. I personally value the gems more, but everyone has their own thing.
I ended up deciding to do that. It's still annoying, because that means I have to change my plans on what parks I was going to get what dragons, and overall I've still lost EC over if I'd managed to get Mesmerus before it left. But it's better than just buying Mesmer.
[/quote] I am calling BS. The point, here, is that Deca is intentionally creating too many things to chase for this event, so there’s a very good chance that most people won’t be able to complete, without spending hoards of cash. FOUR event dragons, FIVE limited (so far, including Mesmerus), TWELVE decos (including the annoying new Mesmerus decos), plus and extra 1k of event currency to evolve Mesmerus. Unless Deca is planning for a TON of triple days, it’s not viable. THIS is the crux of players’ complaints. It’s obvious that Deca is greedy and wants to FORCE players to spend, on top of the ad revenue that they are already getting, in addition to players’ cash. [/quote]
I understand the frustration but this event works for all levels of players. Not all events do that, so i have to admit I appreciate it. Newer players have lots of dragons to go for. Mid level players have returning dragons they may have missed before. And max players have the challenge of new dragons, habitats, decorations, and Mesmerus’ idols. A high level player can do this without spending real money. Other players don’t need to get Mesmerus in order to have a fun event. I don’t disagree that Deca is trying to generate more income, but I like having an event with some challenge. And some great new dragons too!
I see a lot of players worried about missing the purchase of Mesmerus when they're missing the Mesmer dragon. If you own a Mesmer dragon, it's just 10k for the decorations and 1k for the evolve, which isn't much more than the cost briefly was for buying Mesmerus directly. Purchasing a Mesmer is an additional 10k, which may not have been in your budget if you're trying to buy all the new dragons.
Every recent event has given us a reward on the final reward day from the event island that allows us to pick almost any of the previous released dragons from the event. It's very likely that the same will occur here, and you can pick up a Mesmer for free at the end. Then there is some free time before the event closes, use that time to clone Mesmer in your social cave with another Mesmer and have extra copies for the Mesmerus evolution.
And if you don't want to spend the final 1k event currency to evolve, there is always the option to wait until the event ends and spend 100 gems to evolve instead. I personally value the gems more, but everyone has their own thing.
I am calling BS. The point, here, is that Deca is intentionally creating too many things to chase for this event, so there’s a very good chance that most people won’t be able to complete, without spending hoards of cash. FOUR event dragons, FIVE limited (so far, including Mesmerus), TWELVE decos (including the annoying new Mesmerus decos), plus and extra 1k of event currency to evolve Mesmerus. Unless Deca is planning for a TON of triple days, it’s not viable. THIS is the crux of players’ complaints. It’s obvious that Deca is greedy and wants to FORCE players to spend, on top of the ad revenue that they are already getting, in addition to players’ cash.
It's about mindset. Do not expect to buy everything this time around. This event will come around next year. You will have a couple wishes in the meantime. Watch the ads to increase your roses. Enjoy the game and the challenge Quil, great point about picking a dragon at the end to get another Mesmer.
I am calling BS. The point, here, is that Deca is intentionally creating too many things to chase for this event, so there’s a very good chance that most people won’t be able to complete, without spending hoards of cash. FOUR event dragons, FIVE limited (so far, including Mesmerus), TWELVE decos (including the annoying new Mesmerus decos), plus and extra 1k of event currency to evolve Mesmerus. Unless Deca is planning for a TON of triple days, it’s not viable. THIS is the crux of players’ complaints. It’s obvious that Deca is greedy and wants to FORCE players to spend, on top of the ad revenue that they are already getting, in addition to players’ cash.
Oh, this event is going to be tough for sure. In all my years of playing, I've only had one event where I couldn't get everything. That was the first paradise event when Backflip was still running things. I ended up missing almost half the dragons, and that was the first time I even missed one. It was frustrating, but I was able to clone them not long after.
Yes, there are four event dragons and five limiteds. Yet two of the four had 10% cloning chances and I got one the first day, and the other a few days later. And of the five limiteds, the first two had 10% cloning chances too. I managed to get both in the rift, but cloning them would be easy if I had failed. In the end, that leaves 2 initial dragons that I'll need to purchase, Mesmerus, and the status of the last two is still unknown. Given that we're given 10 days to breed the last one usually, I feel pretty confident I'll get it. So it's just the luck of on the other one that will determine if I need to buy 3 or buy 4 dragons. I have enough to buy 2 so far, and I'm bad at collecting currency. I'll have no issues buying the 3rd and getting the other new decorations by the end. I have concerns on the 4th, but that's on me for not playing much and not collecting enough or it wouldn't be an issue. I'm crossing my fingers that I won't need to do it.
So I expect to get everything, without spending. I really don't understand their pricing either. $25 for 9.5k roses, which won't fully buy a new dragon. I would never pay that. I used to buy event currency in the earliest events from Backflip, when they'd offer enough currency to buy a dragon for $5. A few events a year and I felt perfectly happy sending them $5 each time for a game I enjoyed. There's almost nothing worth buying anymore, currency is WAY too low for the cost, even gems are much too low. Extra Runic Caves are the only thing that tempts me now, and that's only twice a year. I understand Deca needs to make money, I just can't imagine how they're doing it with the current pricing scheme. Offer 10k roses for 5 dollars and they'll get more takers. Offer 1000 gems for 10 dollars, and they'll get more takers. I play other games that offer much higher value rewards for a much smaller amount paid, and I occasionally throw them money.
I am calling BS. The point, here, is that Deca is intentionally creating too many things to chase for this event, so there’s a very good chance that most people won’t be able to complete, without spending hoards of cash. FOUR event dragons, FIVE limited (so far, including Mesmerus), TWELVE decos (including the annoying new Mesmerus decos), plus and extra 1k of event currency to evolve Mesmerus. Unless Deca is planning for a TON of triple days, it’s not viable. THIS is the crux of players’ complaints. It’s obvious that Deca is greedy and wants to FORCE players to spend, on top of the ad revenue that they are already getting, in addition to players’ cash.
In all my years of playing, I've only had one event where I couldn't get everything.
I get your other points, but this one is very specific to players who have been playing for at least a while. The longer you've been playing, the more likely this will happen. You've had a chance for dragons as they've been released. I've never played a Valentine's event before, so any of the few Valentine's dragons I have were from EoM or a couple from the one BEB I played during. People who haven't been playing for a long time will definitely struggle.
However, as for Co-Oping odds, 10% doesn't necessarily make it easy. It's still very much down to luck. I was trying for Prestige (another 10% in Co-Op) for ages and never got it, whereas I got Hyperion (1%) first try when I tried on a whim.
I understand the frustration but this event works for all levels of players. [...] Mid level players have returning dragons they may have missed before.
[From a different user, can't work out how to quote multiple things] Same point here. It doesn't unless you've been playing at the right times. I'm mid-game now but want to complete the Dragonarium. The only way I'll come even close to getting the dragons I want is through my multiple parks that I happen to have been developing for a little while now. Other people in a similar position to me won't have those multiple parks. And even though I do, that doesn't change the fact that getting the dragons over multiple parks is not the same as getting them in one park.
I agree a challenge is good. I've accepted that the release of Mesmerus was what it was (even though I still think they could have handled it a lot better). But these comments seem to ignore quite a large chunk of players.
Okelani, Ney, and Kaitykat are the heart of Valentines!
Thank you so very much, kaitykat , @ney , and okelani ! This is the pinkest, most delicious paper-eater ever! And Ney, you bred two Nomnoter twins? Now I know why there’s a 2 after your DV name — it stands for twins twice! Ruby gems and nom treats have been delivered to everyone’s parks (Ney, I’ll have to wait until tomorrow to send you more). Many cheers!
Thanks a lot adlerist . To answer why 2 twins : one for the dragon , one for the pedestal ! And I love your explanation to my DV name.. . 😂
In all my years of playing, I've only had one event where I couldn't get everything.
I get your other points, but this one is very specific to players who have been playing for at least a while. The longer you've been playing, the more likely this will happen. You've had a chance for dragons as they've been released. I've never played a Valentine's event before, so any of the few Valentine's dragons I have were from EoM or a couple from the one BEB I played during. People who haven't been playing for a long time will definitely struggle.
However, as for Co-Oping odds, 10% doesn't necessarily make it easy. It's still very much down to luck. I was trying for Prestige (another 10% in Co-Op) for ages and never got it, whereas I got Hyperion (1%) first try when I tried on a whim.
I was most certainly targeting my response to players who've been playing for years. If your collection isn't almost complete, then your chances of finishing an event and getting everything new to you is nearly impossible. But then each of these events brings a whole lot of older dragons back that can be pretty cheap to purchase and some easy to breed, so there's a lot to do for those players and they'll likely have very different goals.
I understand the 10% frustration, as I often get those in the first few attempts but I've also been known to have to speed through 20-30 attempts to get something that shouldn't have taken more than 10 tries. I spent about 800 of my 1000 gems to get the first dragon this event, as that again happened to me. That's the way of odds though, you still get bad streaks. Take a 10 sided die and roll it 20 times, you might not get a 1. Or you might on the first roll. And that's all I use my gems for, so I've got time until the next event to try to restock them some.
It's still significantly easier than those 1% clones, I don't bother gem speeding those as the odds are so low it's just throwing away gems. I'll try them, wait out the timers, cross my fingers, but expect nothing. That's why I call the 10% easy, as I will always eventually get it with enough gems and a little bit of time. I would need 10s of thousands of gems to get the 1% and make them easy, and I don't ever have that. But for a player who doesn't have 100s of extra gems each event, even the 10%s aren't quite easy without a little luck.
In case you missed its introduction during Camp DragonVale, Deca has a new mini-game called Eggy Hatchy. While it is super exciting, it’s also wildly confusing.
I just had a random thought while doing today's Eggy Hatchy. If you manage to get a level 11+ egg (either because of lots of treat icons, identical eggs, or bad luck when trying to get element goals), does it have the usual breeding boost for rare/epic dragons?
Not something terribly important or ground-breaking, but I was wondering whether anyone knew the answer.
I have just a question : For me before DECA replaced BF, the % to obtain a dragon by co-op was different between a new player and a long player . It’s depend also if you use often gems or not to accelerate the breeds . So 10% is for all types of players now? Thanks by advance for your insights on this !
I have just a question : For me before DECA replaced BF, the % to obtain a dragon by co-op was different between a new player and a long player . It’s depend also if you use often gems or not to accelerate the breeds . So 10% is for all types of players now? Thanks by advance for your insights on this !
The percentage chances are based on how likely you are to get the dragon you want as a result. For example, if you are using Pricklefluff in the Co-Op cave, there's a 10% chance you'll get Pricklefluff - so you'd expect every 1 in 10 breeds to be Pricklefluff. Whereas if you use Hyperion there's only a 1% chance you'll get Hyperion (you'd expect 1 in every 100 breeds to be Hyperion).
You can use Quil's amazing Compendium to find out the chances using the Breeding Sim page (though make sure you've selected the correct breeding cave, because cloning odds especially can be affected by using different caves).
However, those are base chances. If you add loads of extra elements into the mix with the dragon you use (e.g. if you used Pricklefluff + Rainbow), the likelihood of getting Pricklefluff would decrease, purely because there are tons more possible results. Whereas if you use a high level dragon that doesn't add any extra elements (e.g. Pricklefluff + Elder Light), the likelihood would increase, because of breeding odd boosts due to the level of the dragon and the fact you've limited the number of possible results as far as possible.
As far as I'm aware, it's never been the case that a park's level changed the likelihood of getting particular dragons - only the levels of dragons once they're level 11+. You can even get dragons that you are too low-level to hatch - in my low-level alt parks, I've got plenty of dragons from Co-Op breeding that I can't hatch because the parks aren't a high enough level.
As for gems, spending gems also doesn't increase your odds, it just means you get extra chances in a smaller space of time. This is the same with upgrading the normal/epic breeding caves - upgrading them doesn't increase odds, but decreases the time taken for breeds by 20%, so it would take 80% of the time it would have done otherwise to get the dragon you want.
[Edited because the link didn't work originally.]
Last Edit: Feb 19, 2023 11:26:57 GMT -6 by Deleted
I am calling BS. The point, here, is that Deca is intentionally creating too many things to chase for this event, so there’s a very good chance that most people won’t be able to complete, without spending hoards of cash. FOUR event dragons, FIVE limited (so far, including Mesmerus), TWELVE decos (including the annoying new Mesmerus decos), plus and extra 1k of event currency to evolve Mesmerus. Unless Deca is planning for a TON of triple days, it’s not viable. THIS is the crux of players’ complaints. It’s obvious that Deca is greedy and wants to FORCE players to spend, on top of the ad revenue that they are already getting, in addition to players’ cash.
Oh, this event is going to be tough for sure. In all my years of playing, I've only had one event where I couldn't get everything. That was the first paradise event when Backflip was still running things. I ended up missing almost half the dragons, and that was the first time I even missed one. It was frustrating, but I was able to clone them not long after.
Yes, there are four event dragons and five limiteds. Yet two of the four had 10% cloning chances and I got one the first day, and the other a few days later. And of the five limiteds, the first two had 10% cloning chances too. I managed to get both in the rift, but cloning them would be easy if I had failed. In the end, that leaves 2 initial dragons that I'll need to purchase, Mesmerus, and the status of the last two is still unknown. Given that we're given 10 days to breed the last one usually, I feel pretty confident I'll get it. So it's just the luck of on the other one that will determine if I need to buy 3 or buy 4 dragons. I have enough to buy 2 so far, and I'm bad at collecting currency. I'll have no issues buying the 3rd and getting the other new decorations by the end. I have concerns on the 4th, but that's on me for not playing much and not collecting enough or it wouldn't be an issue. I'm crossing my fingers that I won't need to do it.
So I expect to get everything, without spending. I really don't understand their pricing either. $25 for 9.5k roses, which won't fully buy a new dragon. I would never pay that. I used to buy event currency in the earliest events from Backflip, when they'd offer enough currency to buy a dragon for $5. A few events a year and I felt perfectly happy sending them $5 each time for a game I enjoyed. There's almost nothing worth buying anymore, currency is WAY too low for the cost, even gems are much too low. Extra Runic Caves are the only thing that tempts me now, and that's only twice a year. I understand Deca needs to make money, I just can't imagine how they're doing it with the current pricing scheme. Offer 10k roses for 5 dollars and they'll get more takers. Offer 1000 gems for 10 dollars, and they'll get more takers. I play other games that offer much higher value rewards for a much smaller amount paid, and I occasionally throw them money.
Certainly. Other games also offer sure rewards while in DV, you're buying lottery tickets in case of gems.
I'm no statistican, but a lot of people might be willing to buy a 5$ dragon. Even more so, people on a break would be willing to spend 25$ to get 5 dragons, but not 30x5= 150$.
The best monetization strategy DECA has available is people buying themselves a break. However, while 25€ feels like an opportunity, 150€ is not only a punishment, but out of most people's tolerance.
To clarify for me please….🧐 1. If we want mesmerus we have to evolve him from a mesmer dragon 2. To evolve a mesmer to a mesmerus we need 10 decos 3. We have to buy the 10 decos in the event market 4. Each purchase of a deco is guaranteed to be one we do not have yet (so the max we have to spend is 1,000 x 10)
There, think that covers what i am unsure about 👍🏻😃 Thanks 😃
The answer is yes. You got everything correct, as usual! 😊
I see a lot of players worried about missing the purchase of Mesmerus when they're missing the Mesmer dragon. If you own a Mesmer dragon, it's just 10k for the decorations and 1k for the evolve, which isn't much more than the cost briefly was for buying Mesmerus directly. Purchasing a Mesmer is an additional 10k, which may not have been in your budget if you're trying to buy all the new dragons.
Every recent event has given us a reward on the final reward day from the event island that allows us to pick almost any of the previous released dragons from the event. It's very likely that the same will occur here, and you can pick up a Mesmer for free at the end. Then there is some free time before the event closes, use that time to clone Mesmer in your social cave with another Mesmer and have extra copies for the Mesmerus evolution.
And if you don't want to spend the final 1k event currency to evolve, there is always the option to wait until the event ends and spend 100 gems to evolve instead. I personally value the gems more, but everyone has their own thing.
I am calling BS. The point, here, is that Deca is intentionally creating too many things to chase for this event, so there’s a very good chance that most people won’t be able to complete, without spending hoards of cash. FOUR event dragons, FIVE limited (so far, including Mesmerus), TWELVE decos (including the annoying new Mesmerus decos), plus and extra 1k of event currency to evolve Mesmerus. Unless Deca is planning for a TON of triple days, it’s not viable. THIS is the crux of players’ complaints. It’s obvious that Deca is greedy and wants to FORCE players to spend, on top of the ad revenue that they are already getting, in addition to players’ cash.
I agree that it’s frustrating to have five unbreedable dragons. But this the first time it’s occurred. We’ve had four unbreedable dragons before with some complaints but not many. I would suggest adding your criticism to the Rate a Dragon threads or on the poll to vote for your favorite dragons, because adlerist passes those comments on to DECA.
The truth is DECA has to make money, whether players like it or not. Every time BFS and now DECA does something to increase revenue like Offerwall, Dragon Draw, more dragons, or any changes to the events, players are outraged that they have the nerve to look for ways to earn money. I don’t get the anger. You don’t have to watch ads and you can ignore Offerwall and Dragon Draw. How else are they supposed to keep the game running?
I’ve heard players call BFS and DECA “greedy” for the last six years. We don’t know how much their operating costs are. Is it really greedy if they need to pay employees and pay bills? Is it bad if they make a profit? All the other companies make a profit, or they shut down. I don’t see how DECA “wants to FORCE players to spend.” If the dragons were behind a paywall, like adlerist mentioned, then we have a problem because you’re forced to buy the dragon with real money. But right now, no one is forced to buy anything.
Maybe players who play DV don’t play other games. I’ve played plenty of other games, and there aren’t too many that let you collect everything without making purchases. While that’s good for people who like to play for free, that’s not good for DECA, and it’s likely why BFS closed.
If DV doesn’t use paywalls, then it’s not surprising that it has ads, needs players to make purchases, or makes changes. As a test, download five new games on your phone, and see how far you can get without spending real money. You might be surprised to see that BFS and DECA are being generous with DV.
I have just a question : For me before DECA replaced BF, the % to obtain a dragon by co-op was different between a new player and a long player . It’s depend also if you use often gems or not to accelerate the breeds . So 10% is for all types of players now? Thanks by advance for your insights on this !
DECA didn’t change the breeding percentages for dragons. It’s still the same. New players and long time players have the same percentages. There’s no advantage to being new or a veteran. If you use gems to speed up breeds, it only increases your chances because you’re able to get more breeds in.
I see a lot of players worried about missing the purchase of Mesmerus when they're missing the Mesmer dragon. If you own a Mesmer dragon, it's just 10k for the decorations and 1k for the evolve, which isn't much more than the cost briefly was for buying Mesmerus directly. Purchasing a Mesmer is an additional 10k, which may not have been in your budget if you're trying to buy all the new dragons.
Every recent event has given us a reward on the final reward day from the event island that allows us to pick almost any of the previous released dragons from the event. It's very likely that the same will occur here, and you can pick up a Mesmer for free at the end. Then there is some free time before the event closes, use that time to clone Mesmer in your social cave with another Mesmer and have extra copies for the Mesmerus evolution.
And if you don't want to spend the final 1k event currency to evolve, there is always the option to wait until the event ends and spend 100 gems to evolve instead. I personally value the gems more, but everyone has their own thing.
I don’t mean to be a negative Nelly, but doesn’t the shadow in the giftery look like an egg or chest on the last day when they let us choose a previously released dragon?
Maybe players who play DV don’t play other games. I’ve played plenty of other games, and there aren’t too many that let you collect everything without making purchases. While that’s good for people who like to play for free, that’s not good for DECA, and it’s likely why BFS closed.
To be fair, BFS closed because Hasbro was losing money in their mobile gaming division. They had a lot of titles that were really hurting and had very high cost. They shut it all down, likely to stop the bleeding and for whatever tax breaks that gets them. It was my understanding that Dragonvale was one of the few making money, which is also why Deca was willing to pick it up. Their model is to rescue games that still have a good potential to make money.
And yes, DV is one of the very few games still out there that lets you get everything without paying. Even many PC/Console games are moving towards a pay to play model, which is sad.
I see a lot of players worried about missing the purchase of Mesmerus when they're missing the Mesmer dragon. If you own a Mesmer dragon, it's just 10k for the decorations and 1k for the evolve, which isn't much more than the cost briefly was for buying Mesmerus directly. Purchasing a Mesmer is an additional 10k, which may not have been in your budget if you're trying to buy all the new dragons.
Every recent event has given us a reward on the final reward day from the event island that allows us to pick almost any of the previous released dragons from the event. It's very likely that the same will occur here, and you can pick up a Mesmer for free at the end. Then there is some free time before the event closes, use that time to clone Mesmer in your social cave with another Mesmer and have extra copies for the Mesmerus evolution.
And if you don't want to spend the final 1k event currency to evolve, there is always the option to wait until the event ends and spend 100 gems to evolve instead. I personally value the gems more, but everyone has their own thing.
I don’t mean to be a negative Nelly, but doesn’t the shadow in the giftery look like an egg or chest on the last day when they let us choose a previously released dragon?
It was the same for Garden Noms and the Om of Noms the year before - they didn't look like a chest. Given the pattern I think it's *fairly* safe to assume the final gift will be a dragon.
Follow-up question: I've never actually checked, because the dragons I've wanted have always been available, but is it usually/always the case that all non-new-releases are available for the gift? I've seen plenty of comments that heavily imply (by which I mean pretty much outright say, without actually writing the specific wording) that it's just a selection, but as I say I've always been able to get the dragon I wanted, so I didn't know if I'd just been lucky or if the comments were wrong.
Last Edit: Feb 19, 2023 16:13:03 GMT -6 by Deleted
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